Have you ever wondered How To Build Your Brand Using Pinterest? Me, too! We have Clare Drake, a talented graphic designer and Pinterest expert to show us how.
- 0:22 1 | Tell us more about you & your business
- 1:26 2 | Tell us why Pinterest
- 2:50 3 | Pinterest is not a social media platform – it’s not for engagement
- 3:35 4 | Do video & images show up in search results or do you have to go to Pinterest separately?
- 4:04 5 | What % of time should be spent on Pinterest vs IG vs FB, etc when it comes to marketing
- 6:18 6 | Do you have a preference between Tailwind & Boardbooster?
- 8:50 7 | Do you create new images just for Pinterest?
- 10:21 8 | When you say clickable, do you actually put a call-to-action on every single one?
- 12:00 9 | Is there a trend where people are using their long, vertical Pinterest pin as their blog post image instead of the regular horizontal one?
- 12:40 10 | If you don’t have content upgrades because you don’t have time to create them, is that okay?
- 15:25 11 | What are the most popular pins that people should be trying to do? What’s getting the most attention?
- 16:42 12 | What do you think about the pins that are really long i.e. 2200 or 3000
- 17:42 13 | Where are you finding your vertical images?
- 19:53 14 | How has video been performing on Pinterest?
- 22:18 15 | Does the sound automatically turn on with the Autoplay?
- 23:23 16 | Where can people go to find you if they want your help and what kind of help can you provide?
To get in touch with Clare, go to claredrake.com
Lisa Siefert: Hi everyone, I’m Lisa and today we have a really special guest, we have Clare Drake who is very talented as a designer and also really great at social media. Although she has focused on Pinterest, however I suspect she knows how to do much more. So, welcome Clare, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your business.
Clare Drake: Of course. So I’m Clare Drake and I have a Pinterest focused business, so I help people all over the world with their Pinterest. Helping them to get traffic with Pinterest, get sales, build their email list and so mainly I work with creative women. I’ve morphed into that from brand design so I’ve done a little bit of social media as well, but I found Pinterest to be the one I really, really love and I think I can help most people with because it’s very design-based, which I love as a designer. So it works really well with Pinterest ’cause you’re basically doing so many different pins and you can be so creative with it, because it’s about obviously getting traffic and; …
Lisa Siefert: Why don’t you tell us what’s so awesome about Pinterest and out of all the different social media platforms, ’cause they are a lot of them are Instagram, Facebook, why Pinterest?
Clare Drake: Well Pinterest isn’t really a social platform, which I think a lot of people mistake it for, so it’s not like Facebook or Instagram. Because it’s more like Google, so when people search for something they search for how to do something, and whereas if you went on Pinterest, if you went on Instagram, or Facebook you couldn’t search for how to do something. So that’s what the difference is really, so it’s kind of like the visual Google I like to say to people. So it kind of gives people an idea of how they should be creating the content and what they should be thinking when they’re thinking about keywords. So it’s all about how to do something, and phrases are really good as well. So you can basically get your content found, and basically you want to get to the top of Pinterest, like you would the top of Google. As opposed to a social media platform where you would use hashtags, although that’s a little bit skew if now because Pinterest have introduced hashtags. So that’s building that in, but yeah mostly it’s about phrases.
So yeah I just yeah, I love it.
Lisa Siefert: Great, yeah that’s an excellent point I think, and I do this too, I’ll say oh pick a social media platform, and you’re right, it’s not a social media platform. It’s not really for engagement.
Clare Drake: Yeah absolutely, and yeah it’s huge for that. I think a lot of people aren’t really aware of it, or the potential it has for their businesses as well. I think more people are really understanding it now but it’s still on the back burner I think for a lot of people. Something they’ll get around to, but if they focus just on that as opposed to all the other social platforms they would sky rocket their business. They’d get more visibility, and they could just focus on that. Yeah, and spend less time doing all the social media.
Lisa Siefert: Right.
Clare Drake: Because I know that’s all we do.
Lisa Siefert: Exactly, and especially SEO, videos and Pinterest show up in results now in Google. It’s not like you have to even go separately to Pinterest.
Clare Drake: No, that’s it, and a lot of people now actually go into Pinterest, a lot of the users, I think it’s something like 70% actually go into Pinterest to search for how to do something as opposed to Google, or Bing or Yahoo I think is still going. So it’s incredible the scope it’s got as well, for it to be the next social, the next search engine.
Lisa Siefert: Exactly, and we talk about social media then, if you were thinking about your time and marketing, how much time are you spending percentage wise for your Pinterest versus Facebook, or Instagram or anything else?
Clare Drake: To be honest it’s about, because Pinterest is great and you’ve got so many automation resources available, I spend about 30 or 40% of my time, of my marketing time with Pinterest. The rest mainly it’s Facebook groups and Instagram, now I’ve said social because I still kind of count Pinterest as social in that aspect. But because yeah like I say, there are so many … Like Boardbooster and Tailwind make it really, really easy for you to automate everything on Pinterest. So you can go in and it does increase your standing if you go in and manually pin, but it’s not something that you have to do, it just builds up momentum.
So most of the time I use Facebook groups just to up my input, so you have to be really specific with what you’re concentrating on because I could say, oh I can help you with all this kind of online business stuff. Because I know a far amount of quite a bit by now, but you’ve kind of got to say no, I’m just focusing on Pinterest, or I’m just focusing on brand design or whatever your niche is, because you could just go crazy.
Lisa Siefert: Right, yeah it’s true. I don’t think people realize once they get into it, there’s so much work. You can’t just put up a blog post, you have to market it, and then you have to make sure it’s discoverable and then do you have images and right, and keywords.
Clare Drake: Yeah, there’s so much to do with marketing so it’s kind of like it could take up literally all day and you wouldn’t have time for anything else. So yeah, it’s a mine field.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, just going back to what you said before, so Boardbooster and Tailwind, do you have a preference between the two? Because it seems to me like Tailwind is focusing more and more on Instagram, even though it’s a Pinterest tool.
Clare Drake: Yes, I think they initially started with Pinterest and now they’ve got both, so yeah I would suggest you use both. So Boardbooster and Tailwind are really for different things, so personally I use Boardbooster to loop pins, so that basically means you chose a selection of boards. So say if you want to loop pins on five of your boards, and you basically kind of cycle the content. So you fill it with, obviously your boards have your content on there, as well as other peoples, and so you go into Boardbooster and to loop pins it just basically means your account is constantly being active. So people constantly see content from you, so that’s a really, really good resource. So I do about 100 pins a day on Boardbooster.
Lisa Siefert: Oh, 100, that’s a lot.
Clare Drake: You don’t have to that many.
Lisa Siefert: Oh is that all?
Clare Drake: But you could do a lot more if you wanted, but yeah so it has a great free trial I think, when I started it was I think 10,000 pins. But yeah that’s a really good one to loop pins because it makes your account active all the time. I say all the time, I do it for 24 hours because my audience is global but you can pick the times and also it has reports so you can see when your boards and when your account, and when your people are online. So you can do it when they’re online, so yeah, it’s fantastic.
Also Tailwind I would use for scheduling your pins, scheduling, scheduling, however you want to say it. I would focus on your own pins and you can also join Tribes on Tailwind as well, which is kind of like group boards where you build a few people, or hundreds of people it depends how many you want in your tribe, and you schedule out more content. So it builds your audience because you’re sharing an audience with all these other people. So Tailwind is really great for that, so I would definitely use both. If that makes sense?
Lisa Siefert: It does make sense. Are you creating new graphics just for Pinterest because they’re always saying to use vertical instead of horizontal, do you see … ‘Cause I see people doing it so wrong, right? They’re using the square Instagram onto Pinterest.
Clare Drake: Don’t even, don’t even Lisa, oh my God. Yes so I would do a vertical pin, I mainly put my vertical pins so 800 x 1200 pixels, which makes it nice and long. It’s basically because they fill more space in the feed so they’re found more, they’re noticed more, people click on them more because they can see them, as opposed to the tiny ones. So yeah I would do a vertical pin, I use that on my blog and on Pinterest and then I do square ones for my social media. So I do both, you don’t have to do both, but it’s difficult with say if you do an Instagram and Facebook, you don’t really want your vertical ones because it cuts off so much. So I would definitely do two but yeah you definitely need to do one long one for Pinterest because that’s how your contents going to be found, and it’s really beautiful as well. ‘Cause you can brand it and yeah really make it clickable because that’s the whole point, you want people to click through.
Lisa Siefert: So when you say clickable do you actually put a call-to-action on every single one?
Clare Drake: You can do so many things with it, so mainly I do three different pins, you don’t have to go crazy, but because I’m a designer I like to do different ones. So the first one I do my blog, my blog one and I put basically a call-to-action so what they’re learning. So I have a brand style guide so how to create your brand style guide in five steps. Then at the bottom is my URL, but just above that is a picture, so a link to the optime, so the free download, which I always try and have on any blog post that I do.
So I always do that, then I do a second pin, which is basically just the optime. So the brand style guide is a template and so I have a picture of the template with free download, like a button, create a button on the pin so it urges people to think oh actually if I click on that I’m going to get it, and they yeah one more step that they get it.
Also infographics are really good as well, so if there’s way that you can make an infographic on whatever topic you’ve created, then that’s really good and that’s really clickable as well. So yeah, get creative.
Lisa Siefert: Good, just going to back to your blog, with your image, I’ve seen there’s a big trend now where instead of using the horizontal image for the blog title people are just reusing their Pinterest, their long vertical one.
Clare Drake: Yeah, that’s all I do.
Lisa Siefert: Okay.
Clare Drake: Yeah, so I have my title, I have a little blurb about what the post is about, then I have my long image and then I continue with the rest of my post it’s it a [inaudible 00:12:21] post yeah.
Lisa Siefert: That saves you time.
Clare Drake: Yeah. Once you’ve started, ’cause if you’re not a designer and you use Canva or something then you can templates, but you can do that with Adobe as well. So just set up a few templates and then you can just change it every time, which makes it a lot easier. It’s not as laborious as it might sound.
Lisa Siefert: Right. If you don’t have content upgrades and you don’t have time, is that okay? Or what should you do instead?
Clare Drake: Yeah I think when you’re trying to, whenever you create your content you want to think about your audience and what you really want them to do. So what action do you want them to take, so it’s fine if you don’t have an optime, but if say you’re directing them to your blog post, is there somewhere on your site or the side bar where they can get more information from you? So can they sign up for a different optime, ’cause you don’t have to do optime’s for every single post, you can repurpose them. So you could do a handful and then just have different ones on different posts.
But I think the main thing you need to think about is whenever you create content how can you get them on your list? Or how can you build that relationship? So yeah, so it’s really great if you can do different optime’s but that is it can be time intensive, ’cause of work books and worksheets, and audio series and all these different things, it can take a lot more time. So that’s why it’s really great way to repurpose all your optime’s and create trip wires as well, but I won’t get into that.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, I mean I think that’s an excellent point you know, luckily you and I are designers so it’s a lot of work but at least I can do it myself, I can’t imagine having to hire it out on Viber and wait and then your blog post is delayed ’cause you don’t have a content upgrade.
Clare Drake: That’s it, yeah so we can just like knock em out really quickly but I think if people think oh God there’s so much involved, that’s why people hire out.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, I mean I think alternatives are you could have, I’ve seen people with dedicated virtual assistants that know graphic design or you could just like you said pick a template and just kind of swapping information. So you can easily just edit some text for a check list.
Clare Drake: Definitely, I have a few of those where I’ve literally just saved. ‘Cause I do work books a lot so I can change the content and save as a copy and then just change it up yeah. So it does make things easier, especially with things like Canva now, that makes it easy for non designers.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, I think you can create an entire work book in Canva.
Clare Drake: Yeah, you can yeah. I’m not a huge fan of Canva to be honest, I think it’s a bit, you can get a bit generic with it because you can see the same kind of posts from different people. But I get why it’s easy and good for people who aren’t designers I suppose.
Lisa Siefert: Oh yeah, I know.
Clare Drake: I love designing so that’s no problem for me.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, I just … We could go on a whole nother subject on how we don’t like Canva.
So what are the highest performing pins that people should try to do? Is it infographics, is it call-to-actions? What’s getting the most attention?
Clare Drake: The main one is infographics if there’s way you can do an infographic on something you’ve created that is going to be the highest click through rate. Avoid anything with faces, for some reason people don’t like faces on Pinterest.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah I’ve seen that the fashion bloggers just cut people off at the neck.
Clare Drake: Yeah, in fact they actually work really well, so if you have pictures of hands or any other body part, well maybe not any, but yeah as long as your heads not in it, it’s more clickable. Not sure the reason for that. But yeah infographics, if there’s blog posts with a call-to-action, that’s going to be big, so like I said if you can craft a button with free download or click here now something like that, that’s really going to get people clicking through. So that’s always something to think about when you’re creating content as well.
Lisa Siefert: Great, and just you know we talked about the dimensions should be about 800, what do you think about the pins that are … I mean there are some that I’m guess like 2200 or 3000, what do you think of those pins?
Clare Drake: They’re great, there is a limit because, I think it’s something like 2100 ish, I could be wrong on that, where it gets cut off. So you want to get just under, the longer the better, I say ’cause it’s 800 x 1200 is ideal, but you can go longer. But yeah like I say you need to make sure it’s not getting cut off because they don’t get clicked on as much.
Lisa Siefert: You can’t go forever.
Clare Drake: No, unfortunately not, can’t be … ‘Cause you could, ’cause I’ve created ones before for my clients and I’m like there’s so much in this pin but I know it’s going to get cut off on the bottom. So you kind of have to shorten it, it’s a shame.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah and that’s another good point ’cause I feel like the Pinterest is, I mean it’s been around for a while, but I still feel like it’s become more popular recently. So when I go to look for stock images I would say 90% of them are horizontal, it’s really difficult to find vertical. Where are you finding your vertical images?
Clare Drake: It’s really about sizing, so I get most of my images from I think, what do I use? Pixabay is good, Pickapixel is really good. I’m also a subscriber of Rosemary Watson’s stock library, which I think if you can invest a proper stock library, Hotchocolate do one, Wonderfell media, there’s various ones. But it’s less generic that way because we’re paying for a subscription so they’re not readily available. So it just makes it a little bit more unique I think. So when I’m creating my long pins I create my 800 x 1200 and then I place my image on and then I fit it, and then you can move it around of which kind of area looks best. So it’s really easy to kind of just keep it in those dimensions, but sometimes you don’t have the whole image because a lot of them are vertical.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, there’s a lot of times where I’m just like, do I like the left half, ’cause that’s all I’m going to be able to fit into a pin? Doesn’t matter what the rest is, is in the rest of the photo.
Clare Drake: Yeah, so it’s really odd but yeah you can mix things up.
Lisa Siefert: But hopefully I think some photographers are coming out with more and more vertical pins, ’cause I think they’re recognizing people want that.
Clare Drake: Yeah, absolutely and especially with like Instagram Stories as well now, because I had a few and I was like but I can’t fit it in, it’s got to be vertical for that, which is really great as well. I’d like to do that a little bit, but it’s bit impromptu.
Lisa Siefert: So we went through Broadbooster and Tailwind, oh video. So let’s talk how has video been performing on Pinterest and do you have any thoughts on a strategy for that?
Clare Drake: Yeah so it’s not been as popular as vertical pins, because of the size of video. They’re small and horizontal and if you pull it from YouTube it’s this tiny little image that it just gets passed by. Because A, they don’t, they’re changing it now, but they don’t auto play, so it’s literally just a little image and you don’t really know what you’re going into, unless you click on it and then it opens up and it’s really great if you click on it. But ’cause of the size of it, it’s less likely to be clicked on. So to be honest what I would suggest if you’re doing video is do a vertical pin, so 800 x 1200, if you could put your title or your biggest take away of your content.
So what you want your audience to take away from it, and then I would get a clip, sorry not clip, I would get an image of the video and put a play button on top of it. So it looks like it is the video so people click on that, so it’s another call-to-action basically. That way it’s a vertical pin, it’s taking up more space in the feed and people are like, oh actually it’s a video, I want to click in to see that. That will then go to your Pinterest, not your Pinterest, your YouTube channel. So I think that’s a really great way of bypassing the vertical, the horizontal. I have a problem with vertical and horizontal. I’m sorry. So it bypasses that, so I think that’s a good way of doing it.
They have introduced auto-play ad’s now on Pinterest, a video ad’s, which seem to be doing really well. They’re a little bit bigger but they’re still not huge, so see how that pans out. But that’s only just been introduced not that long ago.
Lisa Siefert: So does auto-plays, does the sound automatically turns on?
Clare Drake: I’m not sure, I don’t think it does, I know it does play but I don’t think the sound does come on.
Lisa Siefert: Okay, so I’m sorry, you said the sound does come on?
Clare Drake: I don’t think it does no. I think you have to click, but because when you’re scrolling through the feed and suddenly it’s moving, that’s a good stopping point for people, of oh actually I want to watch this. So I think it’s certainly something to look into for a lot of people, and see how it pans out. But yeah, I’m pretty sure the sound doesn’t come straight away.
Lisa Siefert: That’s another good point, I don’t think people realize, I had a client that wanted to put GIF’s onto Pinterest, they don’t work, it’s not meant for that.
Clare Drake: No, I see some occasionally but then yeah you have to still click on stuff.
Lisa Siefert: You have to click it, which defeats the purpose of a GIF right?
Clare Drake: Yeah, exactly.
Lisa Siefert: Where can people go to find you if they want your help and what kind of help can you offer?
Clare Drake: Yup, so I’m at Claredrake.com and they can, I’ve just launched my Pinterest management package, so it’s set up and management, so it’s a three month package. Basically I do that because with Pinterest algorithm you can’t get momentum quite as fast as you would on another social platform. So it takes a little while for things to come through, hence why it’s three months. But yeah I’ve started that now so if people want to get in touch they can. I also do coaching, Pinterest coaching for people who actually want to learn it themselves, ’cause not everyone … Oh but I started my management package because people were saying, I don’t really want to learn it, I just want results from it. That’s fair enough, so yeah, that’s why I started that and had some interest. That’s really taken off, so yeah it’s exciting. Exciting to start working with people and manage their account for them, and yeah I’ve already seen quite a few people and yeah the results are coming through, which is really great. [crosstalk 00:24:44]
Lisa Siefert: I mean personally don’t even manage my own Pinterest, I pay for someone to manage my Pinterest and manage my Boardbooster.
Clare Drake: Yes, that’s it, that’s what people want apparently. It didn’t even occur to me, I thought no, they want to learn this, like I do. No.
Lisa Siefert: You know it’s like you have so much time, only so much time in the day and I could spend it on Facebook and Instagram, which I know really well. Then I can just outsource Pinterest to someone like you who knows that very well, and it’s going to be more efficient use of your time.
Clare Drake: Yeah, absolutely, it makes so much sense just to focus on what you can. But yeah I do all, I redesign all of your content, and I do three things for each of your content, because design is a big love of mine. So I love that side of it, so yeah I redesign all pins if required. I mean I don’t have to, but for all new content I create all that and various pins for each piece.
Lisa Siefert: How many pins can they get created by you per month?
Clare Drake: Per month, to be honest it depends how much content they have. I mean if they want to start it from scratch with Pinterest I would do three pins, three different pins like I said, so if I can create an infographic or a blog post, or a quote, something like that. I would do that for each piece of content, so it depends how much they want really. I would limit it to redesigning 10 pieces of their current content, and then three pieces of any of the new content, and there’s no limit to that. So yeah, infinite amount.
I do, at the moment, I’ll tell you my current pricing, which is a deposit of 197 just to get it set up. Then it’s 497 a month, and that includes all the graphics, and then it includes all the management as well, so the set up and management per month. So I think that’s a fairly good deal for there’s quite a lot of content that I’ll be creating, and if people don’t want to carry on they still have all of that content. So they have all the content that I’ve created for them, and they continue to manage on their account. So I think that’s, hopefully it’s helpful to people because I know not everyone wants to learn it all and wants … There’s just so much information and because it’s growing all the time, they’re just about to release a new update, which I got an invitation to, so it’s the Boards Within Boards. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of it?
Lisa Siefert: No, what is that?
Clare Drake: They’ve launched sections in boards, so if you have a board and you want to just separate some content out. So I did it earlier and I only got access to it yesterday, but I have a Pinterest tips board, and so I’ve separated out to Boardbooster tips, and Tailwind tips, and content graphic tips, things like that. So you can really kind of separate it out, especially if you have a product business as well, because you can really kind of separate all your categories out. So that’s coming in the next few weeks I think. Yeah, so that’s exciting.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah, that’s great, I would love that for my products.
Clare Drake: Yeah, it’s so good.
Lisa Siefert: So look at that, yeah so you’re definitely … It’s a great deal, I don’t know, I hate when people are like oh it’s too expensive, but if you think about it just the VA management alone, to have someone manage your Pinterest account. Then plus you get graphics, which usually sometimes it happens but it never happens that you have a designer who understands social media management and is willing to do both together in one package.
Clare Drake: Yes. I think that’s the big thing I think as well, because people who start doing the design aren’t really designers so they’re trying to do it and doing the management side as well. But it doesn’t always gel, so yeah and it’s something I love to do as well, both sides of it. So yeah, yes I love it.
Lisa Siefert: Cool, alright everyone thanks for watching and thanks Clare so much for being on.
Clare Drake: Thank you so much Lisa, thank you.
Lisa Siefert: Bye everyone.
Clare Drake: Bye.