Looking good on camera is just as important as looking good everywhere else online – come meet Michelle Lewis, the Visibility Vixen, as she shares her tops secrets & strategies for how to make your Author YouTube Channel the best it can be. To see the entire TIMESTAMPS
- 00:56 1 | Tell us more about yourself & Visibility Vixen
- 2:16 2 | What’s your video toolstack look like?
- 3:52 3 | What does your current video workflow look like?
- 5:57 Making friends on YouTube
- 7:13 4 | Is your process for making livestreams different than batched pre-recorded content?
- 8:37 5 | What are some must-have videos authors should be including in their channels
- 10:29 6 | What are some mistakes you’ve seen other authors doing with video?
- 12:12 7 | What video upload strategy should people use when posting to Twitter?
- 13:23 8 | Should you load native video directly to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, etc.
- 14:33 9 | The camera adds 10# – True or False?
- 17:04 10 | How to get comfortable on camera
- 18:54 11 | Video Shares: What type of content & video length are seeing the most organic reach these days?
- 22:35 12 | Are Book Trailers worth investing in?
- 24:27 13 | What’s your #1 piece of advice for authors trying to use video to market a new book release?
- 26:35 Speed Round
- 27:00 14 | How can students best connect with you going forward?
Michelle Lewis: I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me to this audience. I think that what you do is so fantastic, and I think that it would just … If I would have had this information when I first started writing, oh my gosh, my life would have been very different.
Anyway. If we haven’t met yet, hey guys, my name is Michelle Lewis. I am the founder of Visibility Vixen. My background is in film and TV. A lot of the non glamorous sides of that, and I stepped out into entrepreneurship about two years ago. What I specialize in is helping entrepreneurs that are just getting started, and are planning and getting things executed, but are having a really hard time getting visible online.
That seems to be the missing piece. That’s where I really come in and help people strategize to make sure they have the systems in order to sustain growth, the branding so that they can really stand out. And the video and live-streaming strategy so that they can really dominate the online space. That is what I do. And I am really, really thrilled to be here.
Lisa Siefert: Cool. Yeah, I should mention too. Michelle is kind of … I don’t wanna say she does everything. But I think she doesn’t just help you with video. She can help you with your whole business, and she completely understands the online world, and how things fit in. If you have a membership program, or a course, or a book, or anything else. She can put everything together, [crosstalk 00:01:24]
Michelle Lewis: Yeah, after much trial and error over the past years. Like, figuring out what it’s worth, and helping you do it along the way. I think that’s such … such an awesome thing to be able to offer. And like you know, we’ve had to learn this stuff from scratch. It’s all a process.
Lisa Siefert: Yes. All right, so why don’t you tell us what you’re … Everyone always asks this, what does your video toolstack look like?
Michelle Lewis: Sure. And what I’m assuming when I read this question, I was like, I think she’s talking about all the tools that I use in order to make my videos happen? Perfect.
Okay. Full disclosure, my husband is a cameraman. So he is very uptight about what I do, and the quality that I do it in. I also have a film/TV background. But we’re really blessed since he does video and photography, that I have a very nice camera called the Sony A7. I know a lot of us cannot go out there and get like a four grand camera. Do not worry, do not fret. You can get smaller versions like the Sony PowerShot which is a couple hundred bucks, and like this webcam, which is the Logitech C930, which is $20. I used that camera, and I’m probably going to be upgrading it soon just because there’s a higher megapixel camera. I use that.
I also use what’s called a Zoom Mic to record my audio when I’m doing video. I use a software on my PC called Movie Studio Platinum. That’s for PCs. It’s about $50. If you’re using your Mac you can easily just use iMovie, or whatever.
That’s pretty much what I do to make it happen. I also have, like right now, what’s lighting me is called the china bulb which is super cheap at Lowe’s or Home Depot. Once I’m done editing the video then I upload it to Vimeo. That’s what stores all of my videos. And then I go to Canva and I usually make a nice graphic in order to promote it on social media. So those are the main tools that I use to make everything happen.
Lisa Siefert: Awesome. And then, I think a big part too, is you help people with their systems. Because sometimes it could take you forever, one just coming up with an idea. Filming it. So, what’s the workflow look like for you?
Michelle Lewis: I find that the hardest thing for us to get used to, is getting into a creative, and then a productive routine. We have all these amazing ideas because we’re creative business owners, and that’s why we started an online career. But, it’s really hard to actually sit down and make that concept happen.
And I think that’s really true for authors as well. I’ve done a little bit of writing, but the writer in the family is my mom. She’s just finished her fifth installment of a children’s book series. I have been watching her, and helping her manage her work flow, because what would normally take an author like a year to write, I’m kind of on her, and I make her get it done in like a month or two so that she can get it released even faster.
For me, one of the life saving tools has been Asana, which is free. That’s my project management software. I have tried Chello. For me, I really like Asana. But what I do, is I have … I can pull it up right now so I can reference it.
For example, I have a … One of my offerings is called the Visibility Mastermind. People join that. It’s $37 a month, and I give them trainings every week. Well, I have to plan in advance to make those video trainings possible. I have a project that’s called Visibility Mastermind. And then I put the due dates for each one, and I write out the same work flow that I’m repeating every single week to make sure I have the concept of the video, to make sure I record it, that I have the accompanying worksheet, and then I say okay. Upload it to Vimeo, put it into the membership sites. Schedule it’s release, write the email, embed the link, upload it to the private Facebook group, so that I’m not having to reinvent the wheel, and go “Oh, okay I’ve done the video, what am I supposed to do again?” I’m just clicking the boxes, and so that’s really, really changed the way that I’ve done my business, specifically with video content.
Lisa Siefert: Awesome. Yeah, I think that could help with productivity. And I think if it will help with … I see so many people, I think we were talking about this, come on YouTube, and then leave because it just take up so much time, so-
Michelle Lewis: Oh I know. But what’s so great, and if you guys haven’t checked out Trina Little, be sure to check out her and her channel because she actually … this is really funny, shared a shout to me, and she’s like, “Hey I think we should be friends. ” and I’m like, “Sure okay.” And so she’s like, “Can we get on a call, ’cause I want to talk to you a little bit about your videos,” and I’m like “Oh no.” Like, “What is she going to say?” And she’s like, “You’re so good at doing video, but you’re just repurposing your live streams, and everyone and their mom does that.’
You really need to have video be at the top of your content pyramid, and then have everything else stem from there. It’s one of those things that seems so obvious, but you need someone to be like, “Hey, hello.” The past two weeks, I recorded eight videos in one sitting. And I batched out my contents so that everything’s done until February. So I can focus on getting my summit recordings done and all that stuff. And it’s really changed a lot. If you can think about it in that way, it’s not really having to come up with eight videos. It’s knowing that your weeks of content are going to all stem from that video, so that you can really maximize your visibility. That’s been huge for me.
Lisa Siefert: Great. Are you using a different work flow for livestreams versus batch videos?
Michelle Lewis: For what I’ve kind of decided to do, because I used to have live-streaming at the top of my content pyramid.
But, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this as well, the retention rate, the viewer rate, the interaction of live-streamings has decreased pretty substantially over the last six months. That means … It’s like everything new eventually starts to fade. Now we’re seeing a really huge surge in YouTube and Pinterest. That whole search engine is really where it’s at, especially for 2018. So, you go, “Okay, I’m going to redo things, and have my contents done from my videos,” and then I can go into my group, or on my page, and do a live stream, diving deeper into what I was talking about in my video, or answering any questions.
That’s how I do that. But I do have a list in my Asana, and what I’ll do, is I’ll plan out my juicy title. I’ll plan out my main bullet points of what I’m going to talk about, and then my call to action. So, when I’m about to do a live, I just go in and I copy the entire thing, and I paste it into my description, and then I click go live, so there’s a really nice flow for your viewer to know exactly the key points of what you’re talking about, what you’re offering is, and to see that juicy title at the top. It’s made it really easy for me.
Lisa Siefert: When you’re looking around at other author videos, and I know there aren’t a lot, but when you see some, or when you think about just the industry, the book publishing industry, what are some must have videos that you think authors should really be including in their channels?
Michelle Lewis: At least for me, you’re right. I do not see a lot of author videos anywhere. So I think that this is really untapped resource. Using my mom as an example, what I’ve been doing … ‘Cause you know, it’s a really crazy process when you’re writing your book, you’re editing it, you’re publishing it, and maybe you’re able to … like, with my mom, she has this group of older women who get together for this study once a month, and they love hearing my mom’s book though it’s a children’s book. This has been her practice runs of getting out there, and doing test readings to an audience.
I made sure to go to each one of those presentations, for lack of a better term, and bring the video camera and record them. That way I know that once we have a little bit more time in these coming months, that I can sit down and help her record what’s called a brand video. And I think this is so vital for every online business owner, and specifically authors.
Because yes, you want to be selling your books, but you really wanna be creating those raving fans that buy book after book, that want to go wherever it is that you’re doing a book reading, or buy your products like shirts or mugs, or whatever they are. For her, I’m able to use that, what’s called B-Roll, which is like her writing, or her reading in front of a crowd. And then I’m going to be able to write out a script for her, based on her unique story, record her saying it, and cut it together to make it so that when you go to her home page, or her Facebook page, or her YouTube channel, her audience can connect to her right away. If you want to see an example of that, you can look at my homepage at visibilityvixen.com for the people watching.
Lisa Siefert: Great. Awesome. And then I guess, well on the flip side, then, what are some mistakes that you’re seeing? Maybe authors or anyone in general that you think could apply?
Michelle Lewis: What would I say? The most authors that I see are on Twitter. And I think that they do a great job of interacting with their fans, and interacting with other authors. But I really don’t think they’re utilizing their video ability, and their social media to its fullest potential.
Instead of hiring like a VA, or trying to be online all the time, Twitter loves recycled contents. That’s where I have my biggest audience. And it’s really interesting ’cause you think, oh they really want engagement. No, people on Twitter just want to see what you’re all about, and take action on your links. If it were me, and the strategy that I’m going to be using with my mom, create those beautiful banner images that have a photo of your book, or whatever it is, with maybe the little price tag, or whatever, with the circle, and make sure it says “Buy on Amazon.” If it’s an eBook.
And then, have quotes from your book, and have it recycling on your platform on Twitter, especially. You can have new posts every thirty minutes. And if you include a couple of hashtags, I mean what a great way to increase your visibility. Then people tend to think that when they’re authors, it’s all about getting a publisher, and maybe getting it into a store, or those kinds of things. But, we’re in a digital age, so the more that you can build that fan base yourself. It’s so much easier than to go to that publisher one day when you have that following to get … attach them if you want to. Or stay independent. It’s such a different world now, but I think it’s really important to set up your visibility strategy, and especially utilize it through Twitter, and if you can through YouTube as an author.
Lisa Siefert: That’s a great point. I know Twitter allows really short videos. So, would you advise people to upload maybe a small snippet to Twitter, and then say “Watch more later,” or just the thumbnail?
Michelle Lewis: Well, this is interesting, and I can use my experience with my last visibility summit. What I did, is I had, of course, the full length video interview of, let’s say, Kamila Gornia, one of my speakers. And I make sure to put that on the live landing page, for when the summit’s live. But what I did is, I took like one minute chunks from each speaker, and that is what … and then I condensed the file, ’cause it can tend to be a high quality file, and then I would upload that.
The software that I used to keep everything automated, and I can give you a code so that your audience can get $10 off their first month. But it’s called MeetEdgar.
Lisa Siefert: Thanks
Michelle Lewis: It’s so beautiful. Just because you can set everything up to automate. So, all during the two months leading up to the summit, I made sure to schedule all the visibility summit promos, and they’d go on all the time, and it was great for my audience, because they got to see the video, and that’s so much more attractive than just using an image.
Lisa Siefert: Perfect. Great. ‘Cause it’s also a matter of … I guess I was wondering too, ’cause Facebook always says “Load native video,” right? That works better than the others. So I was just wondering is that true for Twitter, and Snapchat and all those other ones.
Michelle Lewis: I personally don’t use Snapchat. I do use Instastories. But I think it’s always good if you can upload native content, that’s the best. But for me, I’m able to do that inside of MeetEdgar, and then just select which platform I want it to go onto, whether it’s Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn. That’s a way that you can upload it organically, and then schedule it, so that you’re only spending a day or two a month getting all your content ready. And then it can just go. And if you’re an author, it’s all about that one book, two books, three books. So sit down and do that work once. Schedule it to repeat on Twitter, and maybe on your Facebook business page. I think you don’t have to worry about it until you create something new, or have like a new … What are they called, when you go and you read your book in front of people. Whatever that’s called? I can’t remember.
Lisa Siefert: A reading?
Michelle Lewis: Yeah. Like a book publicity tour, whatever it may be. I think it’s all about doing the work, and then being able to step back so you can continue to be creative.
Lisa Siefert: Okay. Perfect. Then, moving on to a totally different subject. I get a lot of people who, when I offer the vlogging class, were like “Oh, I’d love to, but I don’t want to vlog until I lose 50 pounds.” Which, I felt so sad about. Like, I totally get it. Is it true? Does the camera add ten pounds? Should we just not be on video until we’re perfect? What do you say to women like that?
Michelle Lewis: I totally get that. Oh my gosh. When I was in acting class, way back in the day with this really well known Hollywood actress, she told me I was too overweight, and that my skin would never be good enough to be on camera. And I-
Lisa Siefert: That’s horrible.
Michelle Lewis: I know.
Lisa Siefert: You’re beautiful.
Michelle Lewis: I really appreciate that. That was, of course, very damaging for a 12 year old. And I think that, that’s why when I got into television, I became a stand in. Because I was in front of the camera, but not when it was actually rolling. It can be such a common fear, and know that you’re not alone. There’s huge Hollywood actresses that I’ve worked with, that are like “Oh my god, like I’m too fat on camera,” or whatever. They wouldn’t eat anything but vegetables all day ’cause they were terrified of having a little bit of a pudge, or whatever. Ultimately, if you’re having those fears, chances are, it has nothing to do with the way you look.
It has to do with old wounds. Like I’m talking about my acting coach. That means at some point in your past, and this is usually more true for woman than men, but men can deal with this. You’ve been so wounded so terribly about how you look, that that is constantly your way of getting out of being on video, or being visible.
I can give you a link to a training series that really helps you dig into those patterns, and release them. But in terms of adding 10 pounds. Sometimes? Maybe? But as long as you set you camera, like this one, if you’re going to be vlogging, you’re going to be getting a webcam. Set it up high. It’s on my computer right now. Whereas if I were to take this thing off, and be like “Hey guys, let’s vlog.” That doesn’t look nearly as good, right?
You have to look at your camera’s unique positioning, and then you always a nice light source going on. Put on some makeup if it makes you feel more comfortable. But I don’t think that it’s true that it makes you look huge by any means. And with the cameras nowadays, they tend to be much more accurate. That was back when it was on film, so very different, double mirror situation inside of the camera. So I personally don’t think that it’s true. But I think that if you do have those kinds of insecurities, it’s usually because of a much deeper reason.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah. I think that’s a great point. Usually when people talk to me, and they’re like “I don’t want to get on camera,” I’m like, “Is it because you don’t know how to use the DSLR?” They’re like, “No, I do.” I’m like, “Okay, is it ’cause you don’t like your lighting?” But, it’s more about that deep thing, and no one wants to say it. I think it’s great that you have that program. And I think you do a much better job with kind of making people feel comfortable with that part of getting on camera.
Michelle Lewis: Well, and it’s because I’ve been there, right? There’s nothing more accurate than a stand in who was terrified of being seen on camera. I remember still dealing with cystic acne in my teens, and in when I started standing in. I can’t tell you how many directors are like, “Let’s bring the actress in, because what’s her name Katie, doesn’t have this, going on like our stand in does.” I mean, Hollywood is brutal. People are brutal.
Lisa Siefert: That’s horrible.
Michelle Lewis: Yeah, but that’s what we do to ourselves, right? We record a video, then we’re like, “Oh my god, like there’s that one little zit and I know everyone’s gonna see, so I’m gonna redo it.” Or, “Oh I did this weird like eye spaz thing, I’m going to re-record it.” It’s like, take a step back, and first look at … This is what changed everything for me. This has nothing to do with you. You’re here to facilitate whatever mission it is that you have on the planet, and if you’re an author you wanna be reaching people with your unique message based on your skillset, your experiences, or helping people escape.That’s the purpose. And if the video that you create helps facilitate that purpose of getting more people into it, then you’ve done your job. There’s not really enough time to sit there and obsess about how you look, and whether or not something is perfect. Because you need to be able to move forward and actually take action on these ideas, instead of sitting back and watching the world pass you by, and watching other people get success, and feeling really frustrated.
Lisa Siefert: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it’s so true. I think, that should never, ever be a reason that you’re not going to go on YouTube, or be on camera. It’s just, something so easy to overcome. Especially if you join Michelle’s program.
Once you are on camera, let’s talk about shares. What organically is just getting better shares? And is there an optimal link for your videos?
Michelle Lewis: I like my videos to be between 8 and 12 minutes. That’s just my personal preference. You can absolutely have them be shorter. Especially if you’re on Facebook. You’ve got an attention span of about 5 minutes. But for me, what’s working best for me right now, is to create the long form content, wherever that may be in my video, and make that also into a blog. I upload it organically onto my Facebook, and then I take clips for my Instagram and my Twitter.
But I think that you have to sit down and really figure out, what is your month’s theme going to be about. And then break down your weekly content from there. Because a lot of times, we’re just throwing things against the wall. “Well, I think this week, I’ll talk about this, and then this week, I’ll talk about that.” And you have to remember if you’re creating a raving fan experience, you have to build on each lesson that you’re talking about. You have to be very intentional with what you’re creating. I think as long as you plan it out ahead of time, and like I said, you can really break it down in your description of exactly your key points of what you’re talking about, and your call to action. You’ll be totally covered.
But, remember that video is very visual. That people really like to have changes happening about every 30 seconds. Whether that’s a title, or whether that’s simply like if we were recording right now, I’d be talking “Blah, blah, blah,” 30 seconds, then I’d cut to be a little bit tighter 30 seconds, and then go back out. Just little things to keep that viewer engaged, but I think that’s why video is becoming so huge, especially this upcoming year 2018. Because people really want that high quality education.
Lisa Siefert: Right. And this is also a great opportunity for them to use that unused B roll that they used to create the personal brain video Michelle told you to create at the beginning.
Michelle Lewis: Yes. Yes, exactly.
Lisa Siefert: People love when they interject that. I think you probably, as the viewer, love that, you just don’t even know you’re watching B-roll.
Michelle Lewis: Exactly. And that is the key goal for any … That’s why like, we were talking today, because my husband and I directed, and director of photography this web series that we’re working on. And it’s like, you can have great writing, you can have a great director, everything can look amazing. The lighting looks great. But if you have a crappy editor, it’s going to be a terrible product.
That’s what’s hardest ’cause we’re like, we’re writing out our TelePrompter copy, we’re recording it, then we get to editing, and we’re like “Oh, I don’t wanna do this anymore.” But that’s actually the most important part. So be sure that you really intentionally take your time, give it a nice presentation. Put in a low background track in the background.
Because you want your viewer to feel like they’re effortlessly a part of the experience with you, and not distracted by anything else going on, and able to keep their attention.
Lisa Siefert: Yeah. Great point. A big thing with authors now, are book trailers. Which I have my own opinions on, so I’ll hold those until I hear yours. Do you think they’re awesome, or you think they’re lame?
Michelle Lewis: I personally haven’t seen a lot of them. But I can see where it would probably turn lame very quickly. I think that probably the best focus would be … You know, you have to figure out what genre you’re in, and that’s really hard. Let me use my mom for example. Her book is called the Jenny Adventure Series, and it’s all about her and her relationship with the animals in the barn. And even though she can’t hear them, the animals can talk. So, because of that audience you’re not … Yeah, your audience is ultimately kids, but kids aren’t buying the books. It’s going to be the parents. And so the way that I would present that is absolutely having her voice talking through, looking into camera, saying “This book is all about this, this, and this.” And then I’d be inserting pages from the book, and little clips of her reading the book, and that kind of stuff, then going into a call to action.
Instead of, and I think this might be the mistake that you’re alluding to, hiring a graphic designer, or video maker, and it’s like bum, bum, bum “We enter into the jungle …” and it’s like, No, right. Try to make it as authentic as possible, and specifically cater to the people that will be purchasing the book, not necessarily who the audience is. You know what I mean?
Lisa Siefert: Exactly. I just feel like, they’re so expensive because they’ll charge authors maybe $1,000 ’cause they know that they don’t know how to make the video.
Michelle Lewis: Oh my god. Yeah.
Lisa Siefert: And they’ll just take this terrible stock photo images, and just roll some words and music across it.
Michelle Lewis: No.
Lisa Siefert: And it’s just, it’s so painful to watch. So I just feel like. I always tell people “Take that $1,000 or $500 or whatever it cost, and just spend it on Facebook ads, or anything else.”
Michelle Lewis: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think it’s totally fine on your homepage or sales page to have a little video. But take whatever that is, that sounds like a horror show to me.
Lisa Siefert: Right.
Michelle Lewis: Make it so that if you were going to this site, and you wanted to purchase this book for your teenage son, or your grandfather or whatever, that it would be interesting to you. And I find that, especially … I don’t know if you’ve dealt with this. Every time you try to outsource, it usually comes across just not authentic, because it’s not you. We tend to fear … Okay, let’s use Pinterest for example, ’cause I made this mistake. Okay, I’m just gonna completely outsource this, and have nothing to do with it, ’cause it totally freaks me out. Well, the images didn’t look the way I wanted them to look, because it wasn’t in my unique artistic ability. I was able to finally start designing them myself, and offer a template for the designer to work off of.
It’s very similar, especially with video. It has to be your voice, and whoever you’re hiring has to facilitate your vision. But if you simply hand your book over, and say “Make me a video trailer.” They’re going to do exactly what they’re used to doing, versus if you say “Here’s the color pilot, here’s the breakdown, here’s the character breakdown, here’s what I want highlighted, and here’s some B Roll.” And you give that to them with a voiceover that you’ve made yourself, then you’re talking a whole different product.
Lisa Siefert: Right. Since we both poo-pooed book trailers, what’s your number one piece of advice for authors who want to use video to market a new book release.
Michelle Lewis: Absolutely. And remember, I poo-poo lame book trailers. If you’re doing it the way that I’m suggesting, it is not going to be lame, and I think that you can use that trailer, especially for a Facebook ad. And that’s going to have a higher conversion than just a stock image.
I think that if you have a book launch, “Yay, good for you.” Hopefully you are watching this two or three months in advance of the book launching, you really have to get organized and figure out what are the social media platforms that I am going to focus on. Look at the time of year. Just like movies. A lot of movies get released at the wrong time of year. Jaws was originally supposed to be released in December. How well do you think that would have done. But it got pushed because of all the technical problems, until a summer release, which made it the first official blockbuster in history.
In a similar view, look at your book. What is the season that the book takes place in. What is the most popular time for your type of book to be released. Look at when other very popular authors released their books. Then go, “Okay, what social media platforms do I wanna focus on?” And maybe just start with one. And the top social media platform for authors is Twitter. So then you know I’m going to be doing Twitter ads, I’m going to be tweeting a lot of people. I’m going to be tagging other authors, I’m gonna get into Twitter Chats, and do all that kind of stuff that Angela J Ford is a great person who talks about how to launch your books, and talks about Twitter strategy.
Really focus on that platform, create custom content for that platform. Make it engaging, and then just focus on that for your release. If you have a bigger budget, you of course can invest in Facebook ads, and maybe Pinterest ads or something. But I would say really stick with one platform. Invest in making a really nice video, in your unique voice. Then create a bunch of beautiful images, highlight your book, and maybe have a giveaway. That’s always a good thing to do. You can use a software like Gleam, and get people excited about sharing your message.
Lisa Siefert: Perfect. Yeah, I think that’s a good point that Michelle makes too. You don’t have to make a ton of videos. You could just make one, and repurpose it in so many different ways, and on all the different platforms.
Michelle Lewis: Absolutely.
Lisa Siefert: Perfect. I did forget to send you this, I have a speed round, just four quick question.
Michelle Lewis: Ooh. Yeah, throw them at me.
Lisa Siefert: Ready?
Michelle Lewis: Yeah.
Lisa Siefert: PC or Mac?
Michelle Lewis: Say that again?
Lisa Siefert: PC or Mac.
Michelle Lewis: I use a PC.
Lisa Siefert: Coffee or tea?
Michelle Lewis: Tea, oh my gosh. All the way.
Lisa Siefert: Chocolate or vanilla?
Michelle Lewis: Chocolate.
Lisa Siefert: Frozen yogurt or ice cream?
Michelle Lewis: Hmm. Both so good. But I usually go for the ice cream.
Lisa Siefert: All right. Perfect. How can students best connect with you going forward?
Michelle Lewis: Absolutely, you’re welcome to reach out to me. All of my platforms are Visibility Vixen. My website is visibilityvixen.com. Would love to connect with you. Let me know that you watched it here. And let me know what you’re working on, I’d love to hear about it.
Lisa Siefert: Cool. All right. Well, thanks everyone for watching. And thanks so much Michelle for being on.
Michelle Lewis: Of course, thanks for having me. Bye.
Lisa Siefert: Bye everyone